I guess none got her the attention she wanted and a national coverage so she went in for the bang. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. I mean hey, yelling about firearms preferences online is no more productive than discussing nerdy Star Trek stuff, is it? This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector. The Collette suit, for example, lists 39 such discharges, all but five of which involved law enforcement officers. A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. Just because someone shoots hyper-unrealistic 3 gun competition, subscribes to Recoil magazine and routinely watches their fave rave YouTube cult of personality channel shill for the latest company that paid him off doesnt make them a [emailprotected]$$. While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. (unless theyre SWAT or something). Sig can burn for all I care. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. Who function tests their firearm 1) with a round in the chamber, and 2) when its pointed at an extremity? https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/. Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. Zero in the affirmative. They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. Excellent work. Charlton, headquartered in Victoria, B.C., for comment on its original story, but neither responded. The sheriff's office said its investigation found no mechanical problems with its deputy's gun. Bagnell also represented Virginia Sheriffs Deputy Marcie Vadnais who sued SIG when she said her P320 went off on its own when she was removing the weapon from her belt. Vadnais was featured in the Nightline version of ABCs report. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. LOL! Now when you lose your grip on lawn mowers or snow blowers they will not keep travelling foreword all by themselves. And those are exactly the kinds of plaintiffs who happen to make up the vast majority of the lawsuits filed against SIG. The weapon was out of battery when it fired.. Nope. Yes, a lot of police officers only shoot when they have to for qual. Second, your claim that the military is dumping because theyre problematic? Wheee!!. SIG Sauer, a German weapons maker with its U.S. headquarters in Newington, N.H., issued a statement Friday in response to a CBC News report earlier this week that revealed the Nov. 5, 2020, incident and the fact the weapon, the SIG P320, had been withdrawn from service while the military conducts an investigation. I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? Too Many Accidents If the gangster greed monger criminal Capitalvanians in the gun industry had their products under the jurisdiction of the consumer safety administration all the newer striker fired guns would never have been allowed on the market unless they had manual safeties and a safe take down system. Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. You clanging a bell that went silent years ago. The 1911 had one added, the FN 1905 had one added in 1906. After the accident the unit returned to using the SIG P226 they had planned to replace with the P320. Inside the gun, a metal piece called the sear should keep the weapon from firing until the trigger is pulled. His haste to avoid the embarrassment of his gun being seen on the floor turned the incident from a wardrobe malfunction (accidental exposure of a concealed weapon, probably just a reprimand from the OPR) into a negligent discharge (the gun being fired led to him personally getting fired!). The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. Hello perpetrators, Lee Paige is clearly the gift that keeps on giving though our buddy Hunter Biden is a close second! Thats fine. He was told to shoot two rounds. The HK VP70 was made in 1970 when Gaston Glock was making curtain rods. You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. As for the Serpa holster, this is a bunch of internet echo chamber BS that originated with Obama-era federal agencies putting a bad light on a good product in order to sway public opinion and thus damage the manufacturers bottom line. Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. The networks report didnt mention lawsuits filed by LEOs (or anyone else) against other gun makers claiming similar alleged design defects. Trust a P365 with your life. They are being replaced with Glocks. MIM strikers made in India and put into Sigs. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. Second, every gun maker has made lemons in the past. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). Again, these are examples the plaintiff in this case is using to support his claim that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. Really? What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. Guess it hasnt dawned on them that: 1. TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. ABC News ran two reports on the topic last week, highlighting one particular cop in Bridge City, Texas who is suing SIG for $15 million. I have no idea. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. The hype leading up to the P365 was pretty intense and the LGS sold a bunch of those. It isnt the beginner woodworker who loses fingers. Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. Its pathetic how often these legal stunts work. , 54 people all shooting themselves. People of the Gun are probably familiar with the early problems the P320 had regarding drop safety. But just the same- a gun going off from momentum? In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. The company didnt want to comment on any specific pending litigation for obvious reasons. Just 3 days ago, a Florida Corrections recruit killed herself by a negligent discharge during firearms training. Personally they should have gone with the Glock, its not for me but is a proven gun. Oct 20, 2022 #36 ; vh20 said: . . Remember the stupidity of the far right is infinite and the blind greed of the gun makers prove they could not care less about human life and suffering. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . Would you? Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. Golly didnt Sig catch he!! Ill go so far as to say the first batch of Sig P320s did nothing wrong. About $300. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. My dad owned one and that is exactly what happened one time when he was using it. They simply have never been seen in the upper echelon of handgun makers, their entire business model is to offer cheaper guns at cheaper prices. Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. Dude, your story is THREE years old. Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. On Nov. 5, 2020, a recently-purchased SIG Sauer P320 pistol went off unexpectedly at a training range in Dwyer Hill, outside of Ottawa. Theres a couple of possibilities. The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. That a shirt tail or jacket cinch cord slips into a holster. But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. To be sure, Ive informally asked every other owner of a Serpa holster when I meet them, whether they have ever had an ND because of the holster. Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? And as far as Special Forces go, SF going to Glock has been documented as a bean counters solution to save money. Stupid marine, cop, citizen, its their fault. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. Its the expert who gets caught up in the routine and stops paying attention. Either the gun is defective or its not. https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan If this were a car, a phone, a refrigerator, it would have been recalled long ago. Sig P320 discharge while holstered. I also have a manual safety. I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. My elderly aunt drove her Volvo into a parked car, and the yard behind it, and the house behind that, while she was pressing the brake as hard as she could. Strangely the car kept accelerating, almost as if she were flooring the gas pedal. BAM. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. Time will tell if no. . I dont own a P320. I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. They wouldnt have adopted it if was. ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. Grow up, you aint all that! Great job, this threat needed some levity! At least the Lion roars when he is hungry, the C.E.O smiles at you and when you turn your back he puts a knife right into it. Period. It has nothing to do with Glock. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! The U.S. manufacturer went a step further in its statement Friday, stating without evidence or attribution, that the timing of the article was intended to undercut its chances in the federal governments upcoming bid to replace all of the handguns in both the military and RCMP. I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. And they would not have done that for no reason at all. SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. As they should. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, Simply put, the P320 is not safe and the lawsuits arent frivolous. That show with no Shatner-Kirk and only a Nimoy-Spock wouldnt have gotten past the first season. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. It was expensive. Likewise, having a finger in the trigger-guard, or a clothing draw-string, or a retention strap, or some other object, when holstering the gun exonerates the maker, as the gun is firing with a trigger press of sufficient energy and stroke as designed. brakes, remember? They did, however, note that when they were contacted by ABC, the company pointed out specific circumstances that were subsequently uncovered in the investigations of a number of these incidents. I have never had to have one serviced or replaced. And people have a way of looking for ways to deflect blame for those discharges, especially when they stand to lose their job as a result. selling the 365 with strikers breaking? To put it simply, they are expensive cheaply made junk. Third, Glock has had problems, too. But this time, the sound bites used were different. A lot like carrying a cocked and locked 1911 but with the safety off. It may be a rotten trigger, but it does highlight the fact it has a much lighter trigger compared to classic semi-autos and revolvers. Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. Mine is very accurate. Sometimes you dont get what you pay for but now SIG has bragging rights. Theres still the P938 extractors snapping they refuse to acknowledge. 2. The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. Everyone remembers the problems the Beretta M9 had, but it got sorted and they went on to serve over 30 years. Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. These lawsuits ARE about SIG making defective weapons. A plastic gun that has a tendency to go off by itself. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. Thats deflecting from the real issue. Its just that with hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of more than one-third of the countrys population including a lot of cops some number of negligent discharges will inevitably happen. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. I am still waiting for the UPS man (not from the devil but from Sig) I will not hold my breath. Canadian soldier. Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. Canadian soldier wounded by accidental discharge used wrong holster: SIG Sauer I continue to bet my life on them. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. Companies stay silent I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. It did not originally have this. First, clearing a loaded firearm with a finger over the muzzle doesnt exhibit even cursory adherence to the Four Rules. SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. Whats the difference between a $600 Sig and a $300 Taurus? TidalWave Professional Aug 25, 2021 #17 Bassbob said: Somehow I seriously doubt the guns just shot themselves. The best take on this subject is by the author himself: this is about slime lawyers looking to build a national narrative and get a few wins in, so they can more easily get the next win and the next one, the next one and so on. I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. So park the Cops suck cause they aint gunfighters! bull**it. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. Some of the plaintiffs claim the pistol can fire without the trigger even being touched. He wasnt aware of it until contacted earlier this week by CBC News and suggested it was relevant in ongoing litigation in the U.S. We look forward to reviewing the incident in discovery in the United States, he said Friday. The Moron engineer who decided to put that on the Glock should have been hung by his dirty balls. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! The round went downrange so nobody was hurt. Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. That took a lot. It has been flawless so far. In the former case, you would need upward movement coming to a sudden stop to bump up the drop safety at the same time you imparted rearward momentum to the gun to try and move the striker. The latest of these suits was filed last week in US District Court in Massachusetts. The second version emphasized the upgrade to fix the drop safety issue and notes that Harrison believes that problem has been fixed. These lawsuits arent about Sig making a defective weapon, theyre about lawyers building a nationwide consensus in civil trial that makes it easier (and more lucrative) to soak gunmakers. What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. But that's not working in the P320, he said. Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. . I dont own a Glock or a SIG and am not a fanboy of either. In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. But I hope Sig fights it until the bitterest of ends. The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. I dunno if its a case of lowest bidders blues or what. Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. Legal Penalties. None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. How many times did Shatner actually watch it? He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. Its also interesting that theres apparently no corresponding flood of civilian lawsuits against SIG with similar claims of guns going off, even though the public owns far more P320s than do law enforcement agencies. It sure wasnt her fault though, because she was flooring the. So does any of this mean theres something wrong with the P320? Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. UPDATE:We were just made aware of YouTuber BoomStick Tactical who produced this video the day before our post published. They didnt have to, but did. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/. Theyre the only product that is not. Thats the same. I sold that pistol when I got it back. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). There were a lot of changes. Many gun makers have had issues with drop firing, unintended discharge, bad safeties This is a resource I compiled of semi-auto pistols that have been recalled or Upgraded for Safety related problems like Drop Firing, Safeties that Malfunction, Risk of Accidental Discharge, etc. The new Tauruses have a good rep, far better then the P320 or P365. Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. Mechanical engagement of sear to striker not deep enough (wanted lighter, smoother trigger pull without giving it any hand workmanship required with the deep notch much safer classic systems made since 1900) Result another big fail. Whether or not the suits have merit. The trigger bar has to push up on it, for it to release. This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest.
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